Was there a coup? Am I just coup-less?

[crazydiamondsue]

I know a couple of you on my flist have started and/or are involved in these, so I have a question:

What's with all the new "friends only" fanfic communities? Are we morphing into the "Queer as Folk" fandom and no one told me? Is it because of "adult content"? 'Cause if so - I've posted quite a bit of unflocked "adult content" in my day. Is it adult-adult? And what exactly does "darker" mean? Does Xander eat a live chicken while Tara circles him slowly, burning incense; as Spike makes a questionable collage of pre-pubescent Elijah Wood manips?

I'm being flip - but seriously, what's with the Friends Only? (Please attribute the bemusedly bitter tone to the fact that I use communities to track down fics for the su_herald and if they're locked, I can't link them.)

So why are we suddenly becoming a fandom of the "down low?" Um, I think Joss knows we're writing smut. Seriously.

Comments

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

I'd be willing to bet that some of the impetous behind these communities is the wish to use NWS icons and fic banners.

Could be wrong, but I'll bet.

Julia, cynical, that's me

[iadorespike]

Seriously is right. I can't tell you how many times I've been blocked from reading fic because of this "friends only" policy. Frankly, it feels darned "unfriendly" to me... :( I don't know why, though...maybe someone will be able to illuminate us?

BTW - thanks again, Sue!

Anna

[entrenous88.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't quite get it. Um. Sometimes I think that it's a case of keeping out the kids. Sometimes it seems a bit of a weird loop-de-loop measure of who is reading/lurking.

I have noted an additional level to this trend -- first you see a rec or a link, that leads you to a locked community. Then Random Author posts a link in said locked community. The link leads to his/her LJ, which is (surprise!) also locked. So you have to do a bit of jumping through hoops friending twice-over just to get to fic, which may or may not be to your taste.

Honestly, with warnings/ratings, why lock things at all? Shouldn't we assume what most of our websites do -- that if the person is of age, they read/enter the site, and if they're not of age/maturity, they should click away (or, you know, what are their parents doing letting thirteen year old Billy on the prOn sites?)?

The only instances I can think of in which it would seem necessary to have locked communities are hot-button issues like incest or chan. But there's tons of that stuff posted publically, so...yeah.

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

I thought that a couple, initially, had stemmed from the desire to post un-cut/larger banners in a banner friendly forum. But now it seems that every new community I'm asked to pimp is flocked. Makes a lurker cry. *cries*

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

I'm hoping someone has the "The Word." Is it just a desire to see who's reading (which, as you said, kept no LJ people such as you were from being able to read) or is it just a group of like-minded friends only wishing to share with other, known, like-minded friends? Or was there a bad experience with un-flocked adult material? Hmmm.

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

I had previously thought that it was a reaction to policies of other communities - which is fine. I'm a life-long member of the Bible Belt - don't like this church? Start another one. (We seriously had a church separate and become two based on a "windows open vs. air conditioning" kerfuffle.) Then I saw all of the "darker" notations and went, "Ah. It's just pornier than your average fic. Gotcha." But then I just clicked on a new Gunn (yay!) community that seems to be welcoming to any and all Gunn fic, but is flocked. So I'm confused and hoping someone will drop the knowledge on me.

Also? "Pretend That We're Dead" is on the radio. Remember when L7 was cool? No?

[smashsc.livejournal.com]

Sometimes there is a reason. Right after the Serenity previews started a locked fic community started. Locked so that people who hadn't seen the movie wouldn't run across any mention or accidental spoilage if surfing friendsfriends. A month after the movie's opening though that seems a little silly and it seems like posters are starting to unlock when they make new posts (although the movie hasn't been released everywhere internationally yet).

I don't see any logic for locking closed canon fic communities.

[gloss]

That's just weird. Is it related to the sudden proliferation of darker_X comms?

I get locking fics in one's personal journal, depending on personal judgments about content, etc. But an entire community - one that *isn't* centered around whatever hotbutton issue there is - seems pretty over the top.

[oolongtea.livejournal.com]

Hey! L7 is still cool!

::spins up Smell the Magic::

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

Hey! I was singing every word with a big grin on my face. I guess I should have said, "Remember when you could hear them on the radio in Oklahoma?" Heh. Thank God for VH-1 cable radio.

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

Spoilage makes sense (and I think that was a lot of the reason in the QaF arena - not to mention the proliferation of available downloads since evidentally who but you and I have Showtime?)

It's just odd for me to see flocked B-verse communities that wish to advertise that they're around, you just have to friend to read. Typically people want to have their fic read by a wider audience, you know? So I need the rationale (for I am "stare and poke 'til you figure it out" like that.)

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

I find new writers to friend via communities and su_herald and it's annoying as all hell that I can't read something because I'm FLocked out.

Okay, yeah. It's a bit pissy on my part since I'm not running a community or a recs list so it's not vital for me to know who is posting what. I could just join a friends-only community to read a story and then unfriend as soon as I read it. For example, I might want to check out a single Riley story on a friends-only Riley-centric fanfic community, but that doesn't mean I want to actually belong to a Riley-centric fanfic community.

I also know I'm being a bit petty on refusing to join and unjoin freinds-only communities because it isn't like you get spammed with "are you sure you want to quit" emails from LJ like you do from Yahoo Groups.

The thing is though, unless a story sounds damn appealing to me, I'm not going to bother to join a community just so I can read it. It really is an extra hurdle for people who might be casually interested in checking out authors or are interested in discovering new authors, but have zero interest in the main reason for the community's existence. Most people are lazy. Most people, once they hit that forbidden-to-read wall, are just not going to bother to take the extra steps necessary to read a story.

However, I can understand why some fanfic communities might think they have to go to "friends-only" because of the adult content you mention. The one problem is, you can't actually verify that someone is over 18 if they friend your community. You could have a statement on the community info page that states you have to be over 18 to join, but the point is you're still taking the community member at their word. The "friends-only community" phenominon for fanfiction strikes me as a bit of a waste time and throws one more hurdle in front of people who might be casually willing to check a story out.

[Side note: I don't think all "friends-only" communities are a bad idea. For example: there are plenty of music sharing communities on LJ. It's a way to control the size of the community and it's a way to control access to music files and to protect members from 'casual shoppers' who give nothing back. Fanfic communities, IMHO, don't and shouldn't operate that way.]

FLocked stories on individual LJs are something completely different. What people do on their private LJ is all good. I'd say that sometimes private individuals FLock fanfic on their private journal for some damn good reasons, so I have no quibble with what someone does with their 'private space' or why they do it. It's their LJ and they probably even paid for it.

And although I can see why a fanfic community might go "friends-only" under some idea of hiding the community away from casual under-18 readers, I don't think it's really a tactic that works. (Rememeber: THE INTERNET IS FOR P0RN!!!!!) So, like you, I do get kind of annoyed when I run into the "friends-only" wall on communities.

I can't help but wonder if there isn't some compromise in all this though. Maybe have the communities themselves be open, but just the adult, no-one-under-18-allowed stories themselves get FLocked; or, in the case of longer stories, just the sections that are over-18 in adult content.

Just a thot...

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

*nods* Oh, yeah. I understand flocking personal but a community (unless it's a "we don't like X and don't wish to have X here" community or a "we're all going to talk about X, which is inflammatory, and only wish like-minded X'ers") for fic seems to be a way to encourage, you know, more readership. And I haven't noticed any big rumblings in the fic 'verse that would necessitate a turn to locked fic...but then I do nap a lot...

[smashsc.livejournal.com]

Watching QaF was more fun relatively unspoiled and on Showtime. I know I missed some good fic, but *shrug*

I honestly think there is a shame factor (commonly "oh I'm going to the special hell for this") involved. If the community is locked then your flist cannot see what you write unless they are in the special club too. Or at least that is my impression from the recent BSG RPF wank which came down, it seems, on the side of locking all RPF because "the shame." Pfft I say. It is a pain in the neck when doing newsletters (and also boo for making it harder for those of us who have no shame to find fic.)

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

I'm going to assume that you're talking about the Darker_x communities. I know that the first one was flocked to have a more insular community of fic writers who can try out new things without being mocked. I mean... Seriously, the Spike one was all about fairy manips. Fairies are so dark and dangerous floating in their little gardens. I don't get it. I have them friended for another reason entirely.

[amejisuto.livejournal.com]

Okay I usually just work here but I gotta agree with you. I was invited to join a Spander community, don't even remember the name now, but it was by invitation only and that just didn't make sense to me. It just seems very elitist to me and I've always been the freak/outsider so that just makes me not want to join, despite having been invited.

Besides, what do I need another Spander community for? I already have bloodclaim. I don't want to write anything that can't be shared by everyone there, and I don't really want to read anything that's not for all of the other Spandermaniacs there.

[trepkos.livejournal.com]

There's no bar apart from age, to joining them - at least with Darker Spike anyway - but they want to be able to check that the people reading stuff are genuinely (barring a determined deception) over 18 before letting you join.
A few of the pictures have actually disturbed me, and that takes quite a lot... it's also so you can post stuff you might not want to post on your own journal for fear of shocking your flist, I think.
To be fair, I think most of the people who post on Darker Spike also post the stuff to their own journals, and if it's flocked, I guess they don't want it to be available to everyone who happens along. Maybe people are getting suddenly shy about their darker kinks...!

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

I also know I'm being a bit petty on refusing to join and unjoin freinds-only communities because it isn't like you get spammed with "are you sure you want to quit" emails from LJ like you do from Yahoo Groups. Heh - and yes, I had a similar thought. I felt as if I wasn't friending simply based on principle that I was required to friend.

I completely understand flocking fic on a private LJ, whether it's due to subject matter or just to keep the kids from lurking onto a bit of your Riley/Clem smut.

It's just that I've noticed a trend toward flocked communities recently. And yes, if it's a group of friends who are interested in sharing stories between them and not with the fic reading public at large, totally understandable. If it's subject matter (RPS, incest, extreme-AU's, character bashing, etc.) that typically draws flames, that's understandable as well.

But I'm afraid I don't understand the necessity of flocking, say, a Willow/Tara community. It's canon, it's closed canon, and the mod's rules are the mod's rules. People can lurk until such time as they wish to friend, whether it be to regularly read or participate in posting. But it's the idea of not being able to window shop the community, you know? That way if it's not your taste, you move on with none being the wiser.

And yes, it kind of screws things up from a newsletter viewpoint, because I'm assuming that fic that is flocked at the community would be flocked at the personal journal (because otherwise, what would be the point?) and possibly interesting tales are missing out on a wider readership. So I'm interested in the reasoning, because whether it's a simple case of "club mentality" or a worry about ratings, I'm seeing it more and more frequently.

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

No necessarily the darker comms and those (if the content is truly what I think of in terms of dark - say, descriptions of Angelus raping Dru's family, or something) I understand the rationale. Kind of like a community wide "squick" warning, you know?

I've just noticed two seemingly standard fanfic communities recently that required all fic to be flocked and wondered at the reasoning. Lurking is good! Lurking is fun! I'm not crying, "elitism," or anything, just honestly puzzled as to why you would start an community, pimp it, and then limit the readership. (If not based on say, subject matter or spoiler concerns.)

Darker Fairies. So...like Mellificent from Sleeping Beauty?

[fanbot.livejournal.com]

On flock:
Part of why some communities (so I hear) started flocking was because folks would lurk, read, not comment, then go elsewhere and belittle what they read. Don't people realize that anyone can be anywhere and you shouldn't blast things just because you don't like the subject? If you don'tlike the subject, don't read it.
On Darker Communities:
The original Darker community is the best community I have ever been a part of. The members and those who run it are open, intelligent and friendly. Not that other communities arent! But I think others are wanting a piece of that feeling of community are making thier own. I think it's a compliment to Darker_Spike and the fine folks who run it.

[fanbot.livejournal.com]

No, the fairies aren't all dark. They're silly. That's part of the fun at Darker_Spike. Anything goes as long as it can be tied to *snicker* Spike. One post can have a fairy!Spike, then the next one a manip of Spike in chains being whipped by Buffy.

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

Ahh...I didn't even touch on the elitist communities. Now, those I understand the rationale. "We rock - and we only want others we think rock. This will make everyone else think we rock, as well." Yeah. I called that the 8th grade. Ahem.

The more people you open a comm up to, yes, the more instances you'll have to scroll past things you don't want to read (ah, LJ-cut! You beautiful invention!) and the more chances someone might give you unfavorable feedback, but you'll also have more instances of meeting people you'd like to read and who would like to read you (where would my flist have been without bloodclaim?)

And I wonder, too, if you are a member of a "select" fanfic community, does that mean if you post there, you can't post it in your own journal? 'Cause I'm with you there, baby - I'm a rebel.

[lynnenne]

I think you're right... it has nothing to do with protecting underage readers from pr0n OMG, and everything to do with protecting the writers. I joined darker_spike when it first opened, but defriended after a couple of months, because there was nothing there I wanted to read. Most of the fics were not dark, or even that kinky--they were just completely out of character (and frankly, really poorly written). I think the reason the communities stay locked is to keep people like me from griping about the poor quality of fanfic. So, really, it's all my fault. Sorry, Sue. *g*

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Until I read the other comments, I never even considered that it might be closed circle of friends who want to keep it exclusive. I guess I'm camping so deap in the why bother to put it out there if you don't want it out there camp that I didn't even realize that someone might consider it a legitimate reason to FLock a community.

But, yeah, FLocking a community kind of prevents people from lurking and figuring out the flava and rules of the community before they decide to join. And as someone else mentioned, some of the FLocked communities may be the result of that fandom-wide kerfluffle that happened a few months ago over the use of NWS oversized graphics used outside of an lj-cut in fanfic communities. It could be a case that the open communities clamped down on the use all NWS images and people just started these new FLocked communites.

The other thing that concerns me about friends-only communities it that it can tightly control access. Okay, not always a bad thing, but not everyone is going to love you nor are you going to love everyone. In an open community, people (in theory) learn to play nice or at least not antagonize each other. A FLocked community can be exclusionary in that an individual wishing to join might get blocked from joining (or booted after joining) because they're not part of the "in crowd" at that comm. Lord knows, you can find plenty of stories about crap like this happening in other fandoms on fandom_wank.

[sweptawaybayou.livejournal.com]

Wordy McWordy Word.

Dude.

That annoys the crap out of me.

*hugs you*