Was there a coup? Am I just coup-less?

[crazydiamondsue]

I know a couple of you on my flist have started and/or are involved in these, so I have a question:

What's with all the new "friends only" fanfic communities? Are we morphing into the "Queer as Folk" fandom and no one told me? Is it because of "adult content"? 'Cause if so - I've posted quite a bit of unflocked "adult content" in my day. Is it adult-adult? And what exactly does "darker" mean? Does Xander eat a live chicken while Tara circles him slowly, burning incense; as Spike makes a questionable collage of pre-pubescent Elijah Wood manips?

I'm being flip - but seriously, what's with the Friends Only? (Please attribute the bemusedly bitter tone to the fact that I use communities to track down fics for the su_herald and if they're locked, I can't link them.)

So why are we suddenly becoming a fandom of the "down low?" Um, I think Joss knows we're writing smut. Seriously.

Comments

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

I'd be willing to bet that some of the impetous behind these communities is the wish to use NWS icons and fic banners.

Could be wrong, but I'll bet.

Julia, cynical, that's me

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

I thought that a couple, initially, had stemmed from the desire to post un-cut/larger banners in a banner friendly forum. But now it seems that every new community I'm asked to pimp is flocked. Makes a lurker cry. *cries*

[iadorespike]

Seriously is right. I can't tell you how many times I've been blocked from reading fic because of this "friends only" policy. Frankly, it feels darned "unfriendly" to me... :( I don't know why, though...maybe someone will be able to illuminate us?

BTW - thanks again, Sue!

Anna

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

I'm hoping someone has the "The Word." Is it just a desire to see who's reading (which, as you said, kept no LJ people such as you were from being able to read) or is it just a group of like-minded friends only wishing to share with other, known, like-minded friends? Or was there a bad experience with un-flocked adult material? Hmmm.

[entrenous88.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't quite get it. Um. Sometimes I think that it's a case of keeping out the kids. Sometimes it seems a bit of a weird loop-de-loop measure of who is reading/lurking.

I have noted an additional level to this trend -- first you see a rec or a link, that leads you to a locked community. Then Random Author posts a link in said locked community. The link leads to his/her LJ, which is (surprise!) also locked. So you have to do a bit of jumping through hoops friending twice-over just to get to fic, which may or may not be to your taste.

Honestly, with warnings/ratings, why lock things at all? Shouldn't we assume what most of our websites do -- that if the person is of age, they read/enter the site, and if they're not of age/maturity, they should click away (or, you know, what are their parents doing letting thirteen year old Billy on the prOn sites?)?

The only instances I can think of in which it would seem necessary to have locked communities are hot-button issues like incest or chan. But there's tons of that stuff posted publically, so...yeah.

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

I had previously thought that it was a reaction to policies of other communities - which is fine. I'm a life-long member of the Bible Belt - don't like this church? Start another one. (We seriously had a church separate and become two based on a "windows open vs. air conditioning" kerfuffle.) Then I saw all of the "darker" notations and went, "Ah. It's just pornier than your average fic. Gotcha." But then I just clicked on a new Gunn (yay!) community that seems to be welcoming to any and all Gunn fic, but is flocked. So I'm confused and hoping someone will drop the knowledge on me.

Also? "Pretend That We're Dead" is on the radio. Remember when L7 was cool? No?

[smashsc.livejournal.com]

Sometimes there is a reason. Right after the Serenity previews started a locked fic community started. Locked so that people who hadn't seen the movie wouldn't run across any mention or accidental spoilage if surfing friendsfriends. A month after the movie's opening though that seems a little silly and it seems like posters are starting to unlock when they make new posts (although the movie hasn't been released everywhere internationally yet).

I don't see any logic for locking closed canon fic communities.

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

Spoilage makes sense (and I think that was a lot of the reason in the QaF arena - not to mention the proliferation of available downloads since evidentally who but you and I have Showtime?)

It's just odd for me to see flocked B-verse communities that wish to advertise that they're around, you just have to friend to read. Typically people want to have their fic read by a wider audience, you know? So I need the rationale (for I am "stare and poke 'til you figure it out" like that.)

[gloss]

That's just weird. Is it related to the sudden proliferation of darker_X comms?

I get locking fics in one's personal journal, depending on personal judgments about content, etc. But an entire community - one that *isn't* centered around whatever hotbutton issue there is - seems pretty over the top.

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

*nods* Oh, yeah. I understand flocking personal but a community (unless it's a "we don't like X and don't wish to have X here" community or a "we're all going to talk about X, which is inflammatory, and only wish like-minded X'ers") for fic seems to be a way to encourage, you know, more readership. And I haven't noticed any big rumblings in the fic 'verse that would necessitate a turn to locked fic...but then I do nap a lot...

[liz-marcs.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

I find new writers to friend via communities and su_herald and it's annoying as all hell that I can't read something because I'm FLocked out.

Okay, yeah. It's a bit pissy on my part since I'm not running a community or a recs list so it's not vital for me to know who is posting what. I could just join a friends-only community to read a story and then unfriend as soon as I read it. For example, I might want to check out a single Riley story on a friends-only Riley-centric fanfic community, but that doesn't mean I want to actually belong to a Riley-centric fanfic community.

I also know I'm being a bit petty on refusing to join and unjoin freinds-only communities because it isn't like you get spammed with "are you sure you want to quit" emails from LJ like you do from Yahoo Groups.

The thing is though, unless a story sounds damn appealing to me, I'm not going to bother to join a community just so I can read it. It really is an extra hurdle for people who might be casually interested in checking out authors or are interested in discovering new authors, but have zero interest in the main reason for the community's existence. Most people are lazy. Most people, once they hit that forbidden-to-read wall, are just not going to bother to take the extra steps necessary to read a story.

However, I can understand why some fanfic communities might think they have to go to "friends-only" because of the adult content you mention. The one problem is, you can't actually verify that someone is over 18 if they friend your community. You could have a statement on the community info page that states you have to be over 18 to join, but the point is you're still taking the community member at their word. The "friends-only community" phenominon for fanfiction strikes me as a bit of a waste time and throws one more hurdle in front of people who might be casually willing to check a story out.

[Side note: I don't think all "friends-only" communities are a bad idea. For example: there are plenty of music sharing communities on LJ. It's a way to control the size of the community and it's a way to control access to music files and to protect members from 'casual shoppers' who give nothing back. Fanfic communities, IMHO, don't and shouldn't operate that way.]

FLocked stories on individual LJs are something completely different. What people do on their private LJ is all good. I'd say that sometimes private individuals FLock fanfic on their private journal for some damn good reasons, so I have no quibble with what someone does with their 'private space' or why they do it. It's their LJ and they probably even paid for it.

And although I can see why a fanfic community might go "friends-only" under some idea of hiding the community away from casual under-18 readers, I don't think it's really a tactic that works. (Rememeber: THE INTERNET IS FOR P0RN!!!!!) So, like you, I do get kind of annoyed when I run into the "friends-only" wall on communities.

I can't help but wonder if there isn't some compromise in all this though. Maybe have the communities themselves be open, but just the adult, no-one-under-18-allowed stories themselves get FLocked; or, in the case of longer stories, just the sections that are over-18 in adult content.

Just a thot...

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

I also know I'm being a bit petty on refusing to join and unjoin freinds-only communities because it isn't like you get spammed with "are you sure you want to quit" emails from LJ like you do from Yahoo Groups. Heh - and yes, I had a similar thought. I felt as if I wasn't friending simply based on principle that I was required to friend.

I completely understand flocking fic on a private LJ, whether it's due to subject matter or just to keep the kids from lurking onto a bit of your Riley/Clem smut.

It's just that I've noticed a trend toward flocked communities recently. And yes, if it's a group of friends who are interested in sharing stories between them and not with the fic reading public at large, totally understandable. If it's subject matter (RPS, incest, extreme-AU's, character bashing, etc.) that typically draws flames, that's understandable as well.

But I'm afraid I don't understand the necessity of flocking, say, a Willow/Tara community. It's canon, it's closed canon, and the mod's rules are the mod's rules. People can lurk until such time as they wish to friend, whether it be to regularly read or participate in posting. But it's the idea of not being able to window shop the community, you know? That way if it's not your taste, you move on with none being the wiser.

And yes, it kind of screws things up from a newsletter viewpoint, because I'm assuming that fic that is flocked at the community would be flocked at the personal journal (because otherwise, what would be the point?) and possibly interesting tales are missing out on a wider readership. So I'm interested in the reasoning, because whether it's a simple case of "club mentality" or a worry about ratings, I'm seeing it more and more frequently.

[viciouswishes.livejournal.com]

I'm going to assume that you're talking about the Darker_x communities. I know that the first one was flocked to have a more insular community of fic writers who can try out new things without being mocked. I mean... Seriously, the Spike one was all about fairy manips. Fairies are so dark and dangerous floating in their little gardens. I don't get it. I have them friended for another reason entirely.

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

No necessarily the darker comms and those (if the content is truly what I think of in terms of dark - say, descriptions of Angelus raping Dru's family, or something) I understand the rationale. Kind of like a community wide "squick" warning, you know?

I've just noticed two seemingly standard fanfic communities recently that required all fic to be flocked and wondered at the reasoning. Lurking is good! Lurking is fun! I'm not crying, "elitism," or anything, just honestly puzzled as to why you would start an community, pimp it, and then limit the readership. (If not based on say, subject matter or spoiler concerns.)

Darker Fairies. So...like Mellificent from Sleeping Beauty?

[amejisuto.livejournal.com]

Okay I usually just work here but I gotta agree with you. I was invited to join a Spander community, don't even remember the name now, but it was by invitation only and that just didn't make sense to me. It just seems very elitist to me and I've always been the freak/outsider so that just makes me not want to join, despite having been invited.

Besides, what do I need another Spander community for? I already have bloodclaim. I don't want to write anything that can't be shared by everyone there, and I don't really want to read anything that's not for all of the other Spandermaniacs there.

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

Ahh...I didn't even touch on the elitist communities. Now, those I understand the rationale. "We rock - and we only want others we think rock. This will make everyone else think we rock, as well." Yeah. I called that the 8th grade. Ahem.

The more people you open a comm up to, yes, the more instances you'll have to scroll past things you don't want to read (ah, LJ-cut! You beautiful invention!) and the more chances someone might give you unfavorable feedback, but you'll also have more instances of meeting people you'd like to read and who would like to read you (where would my flist have been without bloodclaim?)

And I wonder, too, if you are a member of a "select" fanfic community, does that mean if you post there, you can't post it in your own journal? 'Cause I'm with you there, baby - I'm a rebel.

[trepkos.livejournal.com]

There's no bar apart from age, to joining them - at least with Darker Spike anyway - but they want to be able to check that the people reading stuff are genuinely (barring a determined deception) over 18 before letting you join.
A few of the pictures have actually disturbed me, and that takes quite a lot... it's also so you can post stuff you might not want to post on your own journal for fear of shocking your flist, I think.
To be fair, I think most of the people who post on Darker Spike also post the stuff to their own journals, and if it's flocked, I guess they don't want it to be available to everyone who happens along. Maybe people are getting suddenly shy about their darker kinks...!

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

Hee!! The darker kink I understand. I can understand the thought behind creating a flocked community where *all* fics are going to be NC-17 and deal with dark subject matter and explicit photographs. You're not going to necessarily be able to ascertain that your membership is 18+ other than by their word, but you've made the effort.

I just didn't understand the sudden flocking of almost *all* new communities, since the majority of fanfic I see on LJ is still unflocked.

But it could be a case (for most) to just want to keep the Xander+live chicken fic to a select few. *g*

[fanbot.livejournal.com]

On flock:
Part of why some communities (so I hear) started flocking was because folks would lurk, read, not comment, then go elsewhere and belittle what they read. Don't people realize that anyone can be anywhere and you shouldn't blast things just because you don't like the subject? If you don'tlike the subject, don't read it.
On Darker Communities:
The original Darker community is the best community I have ever been a part of. The members and those who run it are open, intelligent and friendly. Not that other communities arent! But I think others are wanting a piece of that feeling of community are making thier own. I think it's a compliment to Darker_Spike and the fine folks who run it.

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

Re: the flock thingie - I completely understand the rationale of starting a community for subject matter that might not be welcomed by all subsets of a fandom. Like, say I wanted to start an AU cowboy community (just an example, since any time you AU, you're opening yourself up to fandom wide criticism) I'd have the option to lock that community so that only the cowboy auists could read the fic. (I wouldn't, though - I'm a self-admitted attention, good or bad, whore. *g*) But yeah, I can see wanting a closed community that might have "questionable" subject matter. I guess I don't understand the rationale for plain ole Spike/Xander fic needing to be locked away in a "Friends Only" community (and then posted unflocked on a personal journal by a community member.)

Still...what exactly is "darker"? I think of darker as rape, murder, you know - pretty much the bridge of Gimme Shelter. Is that what it is? Or just kinkier? Enquiring minds and whatnot.

[sweptawaybayou.livejournal.com]

Wordy McWordy Word.

Dude.

That annoys the crap out of me.

*hugs you*

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

You know how it is, yo.

I keep linking all these communities, going to to friend them for the Herald and then going...flocked! Dammit! 'Cause if everything goes flocked - we're out of a job. Yeah, I didn't know whether to pout or throw confetti, either. *g*

[uberaeryn.livejournal.com]

It's happening with Lost, too, along with all that elitist bullshit.

Darker? Perhaps it's a political statement and those comms want more people of color on their dead gay shows.

No, seriously, I have no idea.

*runs off to delete LJ againFORTHELOVEOFGAWD*

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

Darker? Perhaps it's a political statement and those comms want more people of color on their dead gay shows. Bwahahaha! I love when you go all Angelus.

Flocked but open to friending - okay, I see that if there's a content or rating reason. But "elistist" and invitation only? What's the point? I'm still going to post *my* fic in *my* journal - so...how would an invitation to an "elitist" community serve me? Just that I was invited? Wow...that's so...Daphne Carlyon's birthday party in the third grade...

[dodyskin.livejournal.com]

Ah haaaaaaaah. Ah. Hah hah. Haaaah.

Can't breathe.

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

*provides oxygen*

*nods sagely*

*knows you feel my pain*

[winterlive.livejournal.com]

Whaaaaaat? He knows? WHO TOLD!?! *runs, chicken w/hed off*

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

Well, see - that was me. I sent Joss a fan letter saying, "Dear Joss - there's are some really good fanfic being written. I know you are at loose ends regarding a storyline for a Spike movie. I have several - from my blogging friends alone! - that I'd like to pitch. So...you think James and Nick would be okay with smooching? James over that "sock" trauma yet? No? Well, I know of some some non-nekkid ones, too, but dude - you're missing out on a gold mine. Hit me back with a yes, no, maybe."

So...what's Cease and Desist mean? *g*

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

A comment after reading the comments:

I read some flocked fics, but it's from writers who are so damned good I'd grawl through a field of rusty razor blades to read them; they tend to be locked because of professional issues more than rating issues. Otherwise, I read so I can recommend; I find that as great a pleasure as the reading itself. and I don't join communities very often, as I have an extensive list of bookmarks I've been using since long before I joined lj and I am used to my little ways.

People who are concerned about posting in open communities because they might omgMEEN get made fun of... oy. I'm pretty sure there's people somewhere making fun of my Victorian Vampires at Sea. Any creative enterprize carries with it the risk of ridicule, and if you're really that bothered by it... 10 to one all flocking does is make sure that the people laughing at you behind your back are the ones who you think are your BFFs.

Julia, and the best Fairy Spike fics I've read are by writers who accept that it's a silly concept, and run with it

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

Any creative enterprize carries with it the risk of ridicule, and if you're really that bothered by it...10 to one all flocking does is make sure that the people laughing at you behind your back are the ones who you think are your BFFs.

Ooo. Good point. Flocking for professional reasons, to keep the family from knowing that "hot_spike_gurl_69" is Mom - yes, I get that.

I am open to any and all kinds of fanfic (although I'm less likely to read those with heavy bdsm or OOC-ness without parody or at least tongue-firmly-in-cheek.) But in any kind of fandom, it's important to realize that not everyone's going to share your vision, and they're well within their rights to "buh?" in their own journals (and honestly, in yours if it's unlocked and there for the taking.) While one person might think I write well and it speaks to their vision of the Buffyverse, another could read it and think, "Spike would *never* fall for Xander - why do you insist on writing this?" While others might love the idea of Spike and Xander but find AU Cowboys a pointless exercise and just another example of how their fandom has gone to hell.

When you put it out there, you take the good with the bad. And not everyone has the same idea of "good" and "bad," so...*shrug*

[suki-blue.livejournal.com]

I've seen this Friends locking thing in few of the graphic making comms, too. Someone will post a couple of teaser bases and then provides a link to the rest. And it's locked!! I mean, why?! It's a graphic for Christ sakes!!

And do I friend the LJ to get to the graphic? Nooooooooo. I get really really hacked off. Fuck 'em. ~nods~

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

Hee! That's another thing I get a lot on the Herald - people pimping locked icon posts. Um, no. That's the whole point of the Herald - to steer fandom at large to things they might have otherwise missed. If it's not accessible to fandom at large, then we can't use it.

If people want to flock - they're well within their rights to flock. But it kind of leaves the people that would just like to window shop and maybe pick up an item or two out in the cold. Of course, I'm a borderline socialist. *g*

[spikedluv]

In general, the idea of f-locking a community is boggling, 'cause I think of communities as being for everyone and therefore available to everyone. That said, I do belong to one graphics comm that is f-locked because it's all nekkid manly bits, lol, and I was quite happy to friend that one, fer sure. I guess there are reasons people might want a community that's not really for the public at large, they just wanna play in a small pond as opposed to the ocean, but if they want people to read them, then they're shooting themselves in the foot, 'cause if I have to go through a bunch of hoops, I'm outta there! *g*

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

I can see the flocking of say, possibly "questionable" graphics or those that you know would appeal to a certain community but not say, your flist at large. (Especially if posters are worried about copyrights on graphic sources, et al.)

I'm a hoop avoider, too. And considering some of the dark, dark fic I read in my early days of fandom on public websites, I was just confused as to the necessity of "locking" dark comms. (Other than the age of consent issue, which is hard to police on LJ.) I think a description on the info page of, "This is dark fic. Blood, gore, dirty-wrong-smut - go away if squicked." That way if someone stumbled in, read about Buffy using Dawn's blood to grease up Spike and then inserting Dawn's severed limbs into Spike's orficies and someone cried, "SQUICKED!" they could be pointed to the info and told to SFU.

And darker just took on new meaning, didn't it? *g*

Pet me, I'm a whore.

[lostakasha.livejournal.com]

Wellll...

I may as well step up and tell you why I joined and posted in a_darker_angel, for what it's worth.

Part the first: I want to read knee weakening, cheek reddening, vascular congestion initiating smut. Angel smut. DBo smut (please, please...). I thought a locked community would show me something hotter and better than what I've already seen -- which, to be honest, is equal parts incredibly hot, gorgeous stuff, fairly decent romantic piffle, and pure unadulterated shit, sometimes by the same writers.

Part the second: I wanted to dip my toe in the pond after a 13 year hiatus from fangirl smut writing. I'm more of the turgid romantic tale teller type, so I figured I could experiment there without embarrassing myself too much. I didn't want my flist to mock me -- if they showed up in ADA, great, if not, no harm, no foul.

Now why I've been wrong on both counts here:

I found hotter, more intriguing stuff on the open LJ than I have so far in ADA. I mean, since when is BDSM dark? Is it 1970 again? So my kinks are still being met nicely elsewhere.

Now that I've read a lot of smut, my stuff isn't hot enough to need a lock. And I'm not even sure what would be, unless it was a fic accompanied by streaming video of the act being performed by the subjects of the fic.

Re: Pet me, I'm a whore.

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

Now that I've read a lot of smut, my stuff isn't hot enough to need a lock. And I'm not even sure what would be, unless it was a fic accompanied by streaming video of the act being performed by the subjects of the fic. Hee! If only...

I can understand the desire for a "darker" comm - even though I'm not particularly someone who's into sub/dom fic. I can understand locking the comm as you said, to "experiment" without feeling the eyes of fandom are upon should you want to travel some particularly rocky roads.

I guess my surprise wasn't in the number of "darker" comms popping up (although I had to snicker at "darker Tara" because I'm such a canon whore and my first thought was, "What? She says 'fuck' once in a while?" Okay, I can see a dark goddess Tara being a hot AU idea, but still.) It was more of notation that most of the new comms I've seen popping up lately seem to be flocked - regardless of subject material. And that came purely from my standpoint of someone who lurked for a *long* time in LJ comms before I had the nerve to read and comment, as well as someone who uses hyperion_lobby, spike_fics, et al to find fics for the su_herald. While I can see someone possibly not wanting their dark-dark-dark say, snuff fic blasted around the fandom, I didn't understand why a character study or plain old 'shipper fic would need to be locked.

I mean, since when is BDSM dark? Is it 1970 again? *loves you*

[ladycat777.livejournal.com]

When amongst sane people, the reasons to lock have been discussed -- they're truly elistist, or they're dealing with a subject matter that's not really passe, etc. That makes sense.

But I think what we're seeing now is an attempt at padding out friendslists. Seriously. Want to read me? You can't just glance at my Oh So Cool comm every once in a while to see if it's to your taste, you must first friend me so I can say I have eighty bajillion people who read me! Because then I will be cool! And play in the Big Girl Sandbox! And and and!

Dude, I'm done with high school. And I say this as someone who obsesses over how many people who have her friended.

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

I wasn't aware of the truly "elistist" comms (invitation only OMG!!) until ubeaeryn pointed them out. Um, what's the purpose? Really. I don't mean to be shitty or shirty - but what's the point?

As to the flocked 'just cause' comms...I don't get it. I have so many comms (on my herald reader journal) that I have friended but won't ever write in, I just use them as a resource to see what's going on with that subset of fandom and pull the fics. I've they're locked...well. Okay.

Flist padding. Hmmm. I hadn't thought of that. I don't necessarily obsess over my number (it could be smaller) but I do like my "friended" and "friend of" to match. (It's off by 1 now because Camisha hasn't friended me back with her Africa journal. It makes the numbers uneven!! I'm aware that I'm insane. You're aware that I'm insane. We're all good here.)

[mirasol.livejournal.com]

*loves you*

I asked this same question about a fortnight ago because, hell, it confuses me. I can understand the reasons I was given - flamers, underaged, NWS themes - but it all seems so exclusionary to me.

One thing I like most about fandom - whether it's the Jossverse or Rocky Horror (being my two main experiences) is the feeling of welcome amongst the fans. Having everything f-locked isn't welcoming.

Occasionally I hear reports about the death of the Buffyverse fandom. But I don't think that's what is happening. Cliques are formed based on common interests/people do lose interest in their fandoms and move on. I realise, and am quite happy with the fact, that I am ever so slightly nerdy and dorky and will have to have my dead gay fandom prised out of my dead cold fingers.

I will completely agree with you on the f-locked fic thing - it's so frustrating to click on a link and not be able to read it. And what's the point of flocking fic just to get a bigger flist? I have trouble enough keeping up with the flist I have!

I joined Darker Spike because I'd keep on hearing good things about what was going on there - unfortunately (for me) it actually seems to be Darker Spuffy mostly, and I can get most of what I might want in dark Spike with Sickchicks.

I would like to add, however, that _xangel has OPEN membership. There are warnings on the userinfo page, and if parents are't responsible enough to supervise what their kids are looking at, then it's their problem, imo, not mine.

And the explosion in "darker" comms? Just a fad, that's all. Thank your lucky stars the fairy Spike thing has blown over...

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

I realise, and am quite happy with the fact, that I am ever so slightly nerdy and dorky and will have to have my dead gay fandom prised out of my dead cold fingers. I say the same only, you know, in a slightly less English way. *g*

I get the purpose of the "darker" comms, it was just the recent advent of almost *all* new comms being flocked that had me head-scratchin'.

And yay for _xangel - for I can mine it for both my reading pleasure and the Herald's. Hurray!

[ely-jan.livejournal.com]

*waves* Um, as one of the perpetrators...I don't know? Honestly, didn't think about it. I started writing at a locked community and it was locked to keep the kids from reading the sexually explicit material. I guess it was something I automatically assumed most communities did for the same reason.

Never meant to cause...well, anything. Just wanted to have all the fics I loved about certain characters together in one place. Will talk to mods about unlocking them. Am putting a group of links about the jokes and the questions on my LJ - will add this as well.

Night!

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

Yay! You were who I was waiting for - sorry to put you on the spot!!! I completely get the lockage on stuff like _a_darker_angel, but I was suprised to see not_just_the_muscle locked. Honestly (other than wondering if anything was going to come of comms for Darker Tara and Darker Fred - isn't that, um, Illyria? Hee) it came out of being so excited to see a new Gunn comm and then disappointed when I realized I wouldn't be able to lurk and we can't link anything that's locked to the su_herald. I hope I didn't come off as shirty! Totally not my intention. I had just mentioned so many locked comms recently that it made my lurker heart go, "Really?"

I, er, didn't think your comm(s) were created for nefarious or pissy reasons. *g*

[strickens-girl.livejournal.com]

I'll admit, all the new comms are making my head spin. I get the need to lock up questionable material, but my flist is already long enough without having to sort through 20 "darker" comms, some of which will no doubt crosspost stories. And I feel bad because I might be missing out on some yummy fics but you can only join so many comms before true insanity kicks in, you know?

*shrugs*

You think it's a case of the haves and have nots? I don't think so but it's a possibility.

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

Sorry! Missed your comment. This was evidentally a somewhat interesting topic. Who knew? *g*

And I feel bad because I might be missing out on some yummy fics but you can only join so many comms before true insanity kicks in, you know? I hear you. I undertand crossposting (guilty!) Well, it looks like it's not so much a case of "have and have nots" but more of a protection for those who wouldn't want everyone to know that a) they post fic or b) post really smutty fic. Which is understandable. Hopefully, if it's something the writer wants to share with fandom-at-large, it gets posted unflocked elsewhere...

[ladycat777.livejournal.com]

Hey, lovely -- was the start no good?

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

You started? Sorry!!! I got into flist skimming and then gratuitous journal posting and didn't go see! I'm going! I'm going!

Once again, late to the party

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

Nothing to add but AU COWBOY COMMM!!!! OMG liek whoa, I am so there!

Re: Once again, late to the party

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

Hee! Well, I'd have you and spikedluv if no one else. Snort. I don't know..."Brokeback Mountain" might sway me that direction. So...what are the chances of you getting to come to Oklahoma around December 9? (Check out my last post.)

[virtualpersonal.livejournal.com]

With respect to darkerspike, I agree with fanbot, it was flocked in order to encourage more people to comment. If they could be assured the site is a closed one, then they wouldn't need to worry about other people (probably non fanfic sort people) seeing where they've been, what they are looking at, etc... As far as encouraging commenting, it seems to have worked quite well. There is no restriction on cross-posting or anything, and a lot of the artists/authors cross-post their works unflocked on their own LJs and other places. I really don't get the sense at all that there is elitism behind the flocking policy, or that there is a fear of negative commentary.

If my memory isn't faulty, shortly after darkerspike opened, there was a community discussion on whether the themes should actually be limited to "dark" fics/art, or not. Whether it should remain Spike centric was also another issue discussed. And then based on community comments etc, it was decided that the subjectmatter did not have to be dark, but had to include Spike.

I do believe all the new "darker" sites are probably copying the format of darkerspike, which has become quite popular. Your post will probably, and on at least one ocasion has, elicited some information on the reasons behind making these newer comms friends-only, or has stirred up some changes in that regard :)

I can see how locked communities make your job of finding and recc'ing fics much harder. Your prior LJ post on how to "cross-market" fics was very helpful. I may be wrong, but I think most people who post to closed communities but want their work circulated outside the closed communities, do cross-post to open communities as well. Those who don't do so need to read your LJ post ::grins:: Anyway, despite my rambling, I do have a point, lol. I think that using your normal sources (open communities, etc...), you probably find everything you'd find in the closed communities, other than those posts that people would keep locked/flocked on their own lj's anyway.

Netiquette wise - I wonder if it is bad form to link to a story in a journal or community that is locked? Hmmm. I think people who do so ought to openly state that you are going to a friends-locked area. Like others above have noted, I find it quite annoying to be lead to a locked lj. 99 percent of the time, I just click the "back button" and leave. It would be a lot more convenient if I knew in advance and didn't "go there" if I didn't intend to join.

As always, thanks for opening up an interesting thread for discussion!

[crazydiamondsue.livejournal.com]

I think that was something interesting that came up about the flocking format for the darker comms. They were following the original format set up by Darker Spike. I really understand the locking for the "darker" comms, because, as a couple of people stated, they felt "freer" to write outside their normal boundaries in a locked comm full of like-minded folk. Makes sense (also with "darker" usually lending to NC-17, the "keep the kiddies away" idea is also a valid one.)

Netiquette wise - I wonder if it is bad form to link to a story in a journal or community that is locked? - speaking just for the su_herald, we don't link to locked posts just for that reason. One, to respect the flock for the poster, and two, not to stymie the lurker who can't see the fic.

That was my original intent in writing this - the fact that my lovely ely_jan had just co-started not_the_muscle for Gunn fic (all kinds) and it was flocked. A lot of times new writers post solely to a comm (I see this on bloodclaim frequently) and they might not be visible elsewhere. Plus, seeing them on comms alerts me to writers outside my typical pairings (S/X, S/A, X/A and B/A) and allows me to friend their journal with my herald journal for further mining.

I was just having a bit of a giggle with the "darker" comms, but I think a few people mentioned feeling a bit "excluded" from lurking on locked comms, and there are a couple of "invitation only" comms that to me did seem a wee bit elitist, but that's probably just me. Only want to share fic with a small group? Well, okay...but you might be lessening your chances for a wider reader base. (Oh, everyone's not the fb whore I am? Okay. *g*)

And mainly, this was just my reaction to seeing several new flocked communities, when I was used to bloodclaim and the like, where you could lurk or post as it moved you. But then, there's no chance of anyone I wouldn't want to know about my LJ finding my LJ (I'm pretty open about my "vampire porn" habits) but I can see that it might be a concern for others.

I hope this was interesting. I tried not to let it get into wankery, but people have different perceptions, you know? I kinda felt bad after a bit, fearing I might be coming off as shirty about "darker" comms (which I'm not) and demanding about open ones (that was honestly a bit of curiousity, because I got why some were flocked, but not others.)

Thanks for your thoughtful reply - interesting stuff this.