crazydiamondsue (
crazydiamondsue) wrote2010-02-01 11:32 am
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Is there a shelf life on obsession?
I will never be multi-fannish. I know this. I am a Cocker Spaniel of fandom loyalty. My Buffyverse investment wanes and ebbs, but it never subsides. It's currently cranked up to 11. I've been spending my snow days re-watching eps (currently season seven, two and five, in no particular order) and reading and re-reading fic (and leaving comments because I am AWESOME!) uploading fic to archives and reading old meta and scribbling a line or two of fic (yeah, I have no illusions about how that will turn out) and all-out wallowing in a love for the Buffyverse that will never die. It pops out of my subconscious in random quotes and geeky non sequiturs. Reading the fic makes me want to be a better writer; watching the show makes me want to be a better person. And to quote the prescient Miss Dionne Warwick, I know I'll never love this way again.
And I'm pretty much exhausting
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IP logging is always off (stalk me, all ye young and tender maidens) anonymous comments are always on: Ask me anything about the Buffyverse. About 'ships (canon and unconventional.) About plotlines controversial or contrived. About characters and my love or lack thereof. About the Buffy fandom that was, and what little I see of the Buffy fandom that is. Ask my opinion of a fic you wrote if you want honesty (I'll squee if I squee, I'll email if I concrit.) Ask me about a fic I wrote, or one I didn't write, or one I should have. Ask me about Buffy's coats or Xander's shoes, Cordy's hair or Giles' eyes. Ask me why I love Xander, or why I love, hell, Vi. I don't care.
Ask me anything, just let me talk about my Buffy-love because Caza's heard it all for 10 years and Jonah's 18-month-old contribution is to yell, "Kitty-cat!" whenever Angel vamps out and growls. (I shit you not -- it's a thing of beauty and joy forever.)
ASK ME ANYTHING -- as long as you're humming Nerf Herder under your breath.
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OK, do you find S7 Buffy as tiresome as I do?
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I just finished re-watching Season 7 in its totality. The first time around, I didn't love it. There were too many people -- the Core Four got lost in the shuffle. The First is incomprehensible as a villain (stopping the source of evil? Really?) Making every girl who will be a Slayer a slayer -- that's empowering! That's beautiful! Girl power yay! Oh, wait, that's really unfair. And *all* girls? I thought it had something to do with menarche? I have no idea! BUT. I love the domestic vibe with Buffy, Xander and Dawn at the beginning.
What does it mean that Spike's all soul having? But he looks so beautiful draped over that cross. Andrew, you're funny, but I'd rather hear jokes from Willow and Xander. But the funnel cake line makes me grin.
Giles-as-the-First is a silly idea, right up until the part where they tackle him and grope him with abandon and then Spike goes for a flying a leap and Giles calls him a berk.
Faith and Buffy's reconciliation works for me. Dawn, Willow, Giles and Xander kicking Buffy out of the house does not. Robin Wood is freaking hot. I cry when Xander gives Dawn the "extraordinary" speech in "Potential." I cry when Anya dies. I lip quiver when Spike's chained to a wall, muttering "She will come for me" to the First. I 'ship Buffy/Spike hard in random moments -- most notably when they take the Potentials to Willie's and share a platonic grin.
I find the Willow/Kennedy relationship forced, but I still think it's hot when Kennedy licks her throat. Nathan Fillion makes me laugh. I especially enjoy quoting along to, "You ready to finish this? Bitch?" I really wish Jonathan could have joined their gang.
How the hell does Dawn move Xander out of the driver's seat after she tasers him? Is she sitting in his lap to drive back to Sunnydale? 'Cause if so...I'm kind of okay with that.
SMG's too thin. Angel's in love with Cordy. Michelle Trachtenberg is disturbingly hot at 17. Spike's drowning in foot wear. I wish the scene with Giles and Wood sharing a joint hadn't been cut. But it ends with Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Xander, Giles and Faith and opens up a bunch of post-Chosen fanfic, so I'm mostly okay with it, in the end. But yeah, those potentials did get a little tiring, and Buffy could have been a little less speechy. It still makes me laugh and cry, but yeah, it's no Season 2.
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Why not one of the 8 million gorgeous quarter length coats she owned? Her zillions of halters? Her acres of sundresses? This is a girl who went to fight a hellgod and STILL stopped at her house to change into a cuter outfit first.
But considering that Willow wears a similar top in "Help," I'm going to say that Willow chose it. Because she knew that Buffy would come back from "hell" as quickly as she could, if only to slip into a halter and kicky capri pants. Yeesh.
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Did you know when you upload to Ao3 and identify the fic as a gift, the person identified as recipient gets an email? You and DevilC have been uploading gifts for me lately and I (re)read all of them and have joy and love in my fannish heart for all my super talented friends.
What does Jonah say when Spike vamps and growls?
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I found that out about Ao3 when Vinnie told me -- it was weird! And yay for love and joy and fannish hearts full of same!
Jonah hasn't really seen Spike vamp out and growl yet. But he can say "Boo-fay" if I point to a picture of SMG on, say, a Scooby Doo DVD when we're in the check out line at target. ;)
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Recs
I may make a list of meta posts. I went through the ones I've kept in memories and looked up and read some that were new to me. I was thinking that I wish there was a archive or community of *all* the great Buffyverse meta, whether it was character study or ship manifesto or canon deconstruction. I may very well try to round those up.
I would *try* to write a must-read fic list, but I like so many genres and so many pairings and so many characters that I don't know if I would have the time and energy to create the exhaustive list that *I* would want. Plus I'm about 2 years behind on reading some of the newer stuff, although I have been trying to play catch-up.
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My favorite character
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Storylines
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Riley Finn
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Buffy/Faith
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One Thing I Wish I'd Written
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SPN makes me boggle, too. I was talking to a friend who is more into SPN fandom than I and she mentioned that there were talking about their "ship wars" (Sam/Dean vs. Dean/Castiel) and how they *had* to be the most vitriolic fandom ever with their ship wars and I howled with laughter. Guys! You have *one* canon ship that lasted more than an episode! Call me when you have people fighting on lists and forums who don't even write fanfic over Buffy/Angel vs Buffy/Spike and then I'll believe your vitrol. Good God.
Ahem. Xander. I dislike little about Xander. I don't blame Xander for the way he's written sometimes. Heh. Two things: I don't like Xander causing the OMWF spell and I don't like the wedding-that-wasn't. Obvious choices, both, I'm sure but...I don't believe Season 6 Xander would summon a demon, not after everything he's seen (hello -- he's Willow's best friend!) and not after the way Giles reacted to his love spell in Season 2. I just don't believe. I know Joss has said he went for it for a laugh, but thank you, Joss, for causing me to have to defend Xander callously causing the deaths of dozens(?) who danced themselves to death.
I never wanted Xander and Anya to get married. I love both of them, and I enjoyed their relationship, but I just felt that a married Anya and Xander would negatively affect the group dynamic. And I thought they were too young (says the person who got married at 21 and is about to celebrate her 18th wedding anniversary.) I realize S6 is all about the pain, but I would have liked the break-up to have occurred before I had to watch Anya practice her "I'm marrying my best friend" vows. Ouch. Having said that, I don't regret getting to see Anya/Spike sex and I enjoyed Anya have her powers back (albeit briefly.)
I love that Xander became a carpenter (despite the fact that Nick Brendon doesn't) because of all of the supportive, rebuilding subtext there. I love his friendships with Buffy and Willow, I love any time he cuts Spike a break (Spiral) and I love whenever he and Giles have to hang out together. I love his arms -- goddamn. I love his laugh. I love when he's right about something. I love every moment that he supports Buffy, especially when he tells her he always thought that he'd die by her side. *lip quiver*
And, yes, the whole "She never said he was buff!" about Angel and his fixation on Angel in Season 1 seems a bit more than just jealousy on Buffy's behalf. And that scene between them in "Prophecy Girl" (as well as the Angelus/Xander scene in "Killed By Death") just makes me damn happy.
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*cough*
Oh Buffyverse, never die.
My most recent thingy is here, and you might enjoy it or you might not! ;)
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I just re-watched "Phases" and the scene were Buffy and Xander have to slay a former classmate at the funeral home, and the classmate taunts Buffy with the fact that Angel sired her and Buffy goes down and Xander has to comfort her? And there's that almost-kiss moment? Added to the fact that Xander is dating Cordelia and dealing with jealousy issues over Willow dating Oz and Buffy is still mourning her relationship with Angel? And all of those feelings are real and valid? Yes. That's why I love my show.
And thank you for pointing me to your S/A fic. I love Spike/Angel when the characterization zings and it really did in your story.
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Lookit all these people wanting to Buff out with you. *looks it*
*big grin*
Gimme your crossover spiel. Do you like crossovers? Why, why not? If so, which other sources do you think crossover best with the B'Verse? If you could dump one character from anything else into Sunnydale or LA who would it be?
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Super-not-so-secret-Sue-confession:
I HATE CROSSOVERS
Excepting, of course, BtVS/AtS crossovers, since it's the same universe. I was just thinking about that last night, because I was looking at fic on Ao3 and noticing that a lot of the fic that had the most hits was crossover fic. I can sum up my feelings about crossovers with this quote from Xander in Restless: "Oh, who cares?!" (It's better if you re-watch it to get his inflection.)
Here's my oft used analogy for my feelings on crossovers (and you'll get a particular kick out of it.) In my opinion, fan fiction crossovers are like playing Barbies with Strawberry Shortcake dolls and Star Wars action figures. They're not scale! Barbie and Skipper sitting down Strawberry Shortcake and talking about boys looks weird! Why does Barbie's redheaded friend have such a big head comparatively? And why is Boba Fett driving the pink convertible???
The rules of their universes are different! Why would Buffy be checking out a Stargate? Did she learn nothing from the Initiative? Why would Xander bang Harry Potter? Hogwarts grads can only do magic with wands! (Uh, that got dirtier than I meant.) I don't find Buffy and Angel somehow running into Mal Reynolds and telling him that he looks like an evil preacher they used to know particularly clever. WHY are Buffy and Angel in the 'verse? I DON'T GET IT.
But the main reason that I don't care for crossovers, of course, is that I only have one fandom. I know that many, many people are far more multi-fannish than I and that they equally love Buffy and say, Supernatural or Stargate or Dr. Who. I get that they want to see their favorite characters together. Or they think that Faith/Dean Winchester sounds hot (and I can actually sort of see that.)
But unlike SPN with its 3 characters, the Buffyverse has dozens! There are so many possible 'ships and interactions and character studies and did I mention porn -- without bringing another universe into it. It really makes me antsy to read, honestly. Like an itch I can't reach. Why is Sam Winchester researching with Xander Harris? Xander looks too bright and shiny and healthy and funny in the grey tones of SPN.
But the heart wants what the heart wants, and the fact that I think Rodney McKay/Buffy Summers is gooftastic is not going to stop someone else from thinking, "Ah, yeaaaah. There's the puddin'."
Now, having said all of that, Andrea once wrote a Spike/Xander snippet with Spike taking Xander to see Dr. Gregory House, MD and House being fascinated that Spike was a vampire. The characterizations were all great, and I would have loved to have read reams of it. And Lucia wrote a Sam/Buffy that I like, way back in early SPN-dom. But my all time favorite crossover (of the 3 or so I've read) is this:
Thin Ice, Buffy Summers & Justin Taylor (the parallels between Angel and Brian Kinney amaze.)
But yeah -- like Barbie and Boba Fett.
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I love everybody but Warren who was humanly evil and therefore totally culpable.
I watched "Fool for Love" about a dozen times before I got that Riley was being a fool for love, too. It's as much his story as Spike's.
Talk more about BtVS and AtS. Talk more.
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Warren wigs me the heck out, but I do love when they're watching the Spike/Anya feed and he says, "Is that porn?" Heh. And when he's Warren-Slash-the-First and goes into the whole Star Wars "Only hope" speech with Andrew about Jonathan and then Yoda's, "No, there is a another" and Andrew's all, "What? Really?" and Warren-Slash-the-First says, "Nah, I was just going with it."
I didn't get the Riley "fool" allusion until later, either. I wondered why that was the B-story and then I finally clued in. And then it was a thing of beauty.
I miss the Buffyverse like a sucking chest wound.
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Anything that didn't happen that you wish had? A missed opportunity or plotline?
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I wish there had been more Core Four moments in Season 7. Hmmm...this is hard. Because...so sometimes canon glosses over details (time constraints, bigger fish, etc. etc. etc.) I never noticed in canon how truly shredded Giles was after Angelus tortures him Becoming Part 2. But fan fic fleshed that out (suddenly wishing for a different phrase) for me. I never thought about how Buffy was buried until fan fic suggested a Scooby burial. I love that fan fic can dig deep into all of the missing moments and elevate the ones we barely glimpse.
I wish there had been more Spike/Buffy/Angel moments. I really enjoy their scene in "Lovers Walk." I think I wish that SMG had been on one of the last eps of AtS, but I'm not sure now that I do (well, I wish the dancing Buffy wig hadn't been) because ultimately it was about Angel and Angel's mission. I wish Giles could have seen the Wes that Wes became. I would have liked more Fanged Four flashbacks.
I wish Season 4 AtS had gone differently (except for the stuff with Faith.) I wish Giles had been in Season 6, although I understand Tony's reasons for not being there.
I'm not really coming up with anything big, because, ultimately fan fic has answered a lot of wishes for me (I am an emotional 'shipper whore and enjoy the chance to see Angel paired with Buffy, Wes and Spike at the same time in canon, although not necessarily in the same fic.)
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Also, Spike/Connor: Discuss.
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From a canon perspective, there's not really anything I don't like about Spike/Angel. From "School Hard" on I loved every interaction the two of them shared. I was watching "I Only Have Eyes for You" last night, and I've always enjoyed all of Angelus' "roller boy" etc. quips about Spike in the wheelchair, but I noticed a couple I hadn't before. When Angelus takes them to the Crawford Street mansion and Spike snipes about the windows and open gardens Angelus tells him if he doesn't like it to "hit the stairs" and "take a stand." Heh.
The same episode has Angelus taunting Spike with his physical relationship with Dru, and then leaning down into Spike's face, Angelus' shirt open and his wet, bare chest in Spike's face. Taunting. Angelus, you slashy bastard.
I really enjoy them in Season 5 of AtS, too. I know some people didn't. I loved it. Every slashy, snarky moment. And that closing scene in "Damage"? That is my S/A manifesto right there.
I was intimidated to write S/A. A lot of S/A is gorgeous, meaty meta-study with this deeply complex, centuries old relationship of aggression and fight for dominance. When S/A is good, it's rich and thick and some of the best fandom has to offer. But Jesus Christ, when it's bad it's a peach basket turnover of childer and schmoopy rape. Schmoopy rape, Lynne! What the ever loving fuck.
I want Angelus/William fic that allows for Spike's attitude in the "Fool for Love" mine shaft flashback. I don't want a simpering wimpire William. I want Spike/Angel fic that deals with who they've become post-soul, post-Buffy, post 20th century. I want it complex with Spike's humor and Angel's cynicism. I want what you write, basically. (And I also need to go re-read Kita's "My Angel" meta.)
Spike/Connor. I can see it. I can see why Spike would want to go there (oh, wouldn't that just be rich?) and I can see why Connor would be vampire-nip to Spike. I can see why Connor would be attracted to Spike. I don't read it often, but it makes pretty pictures in my head. I can't write Connor for shit, though, so I'll probably never do anything with it, but yeah. I can see it.
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Like you I don't think I'll ever find a TV show I'm so passionate about. Rewatching it does bring up themes and characterizations that make me wince, but there are many *great* moments that make up for it.
I wish with all my heart that writers could be more consistent in writing the characters. I know that there are many writers on any given show, but I think about how many fanfic writers out there who are wonderful at nailing characterization. I guess fanfic writers aren't working against deadline, and I'm sure there are other constraints I'm not aware of, but it's so irritating to have a character do things that don't make sense.
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But there are times that I boggle at Spike's characterization within the same season to the point that I'm like...wow. You guys should talk, you know? There's a catty joke that Willow makes at Anya's expense in Season 7 (and I can't recall what it is now) and it seems so out of character for the Willow who watched Anya's not-wedding and the definitely for post "Grave" and post "Lessons" Willow. It's a cheap joke, and it cheapens the character. What was somewhat amusing in early Season 4 is a little painful in mid-Season 7.
But then I have boggled for years at fan fic insisting on Spike calling Xander "whelp" and Xander calling Giles "G-Man" incessantly and Spike calling Angel "Peaches" like it's his Christian name and that Riley was evil and Willow and Buffy hated Xander and that Anya is a horrible, evil she-beast just trying to stop the True Luv that is Spander that I can kind of cut the canon writers some slack. Kinda. ;)
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And I solemnly swear that I am humming Nerf Herder as we speak.
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Identification: Xander. Always Xander. Mainly for the constant use of humor as deflection, but I was very much like him in my 20s. I've always been a little more self-aware than his canon character, but I still have that same tendency to bottle things up and then release them in either inappropriate humor or ill-timed anger. I also have a bit of Willow and Cordy going on, but Xander's the one I get the most.
I really like my Spike/Angel story "There's Fire," because I think that's a difficult 'ship to get right (especially in Season 5) but I'm probably most proud of my S/X story "Sunday Morning Coming Down" because it was the longest piece of fiction I've ever completed, and for a while I despaired of finishing it. I also poured a lot of my love for the Buffyverse into it, and a lot of my feelings on grief and what "the family you make" means to me. It's not perfect, but I think I got more things right than wrong.
I'm heading banging to the Nerf Herder in my head right now.
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It's not perfect by any means (there are a couple of pieces of fanon I wish I'd left alone) but I wrote that as an S/X fic that could possibly, maybe, happen in canon, and I wrote if so that my non-S/X friends could read it, so there's a lot of ensemble and lot of what Buffy meant to Spike and Xander as their reason. It's also where I worked out a lot of issues I had about losing my mom at a young age (similar to what Joss did with The Body, although of course not as well.) It's how I see both characters, and why I can 'ship them but not see them as the truest love ever.
It's meaningful to me, as well, because I wrote it in response to a lot of my favorite S/X stories or writers in fandom, and by writing I not only got the appreciation of my favorite S/X writers, I also met two of my closest fandom friends, who are now RL friends today. And whether or not it's every S/X reader's cup of tea or not, this review by
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Well, yeah. It's really, really nice to know I'm not alone in this.
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Two of my earliest friends on Live Journal were Stoney and Dovil, so I also started to read/write parodies and humor fic. Fandom was (is?) always a very social experience for me, so I started friending people who 'shipped other characters and wrote different styles of fic. I met the late Nan Dibble and then Rahirah and read and enjoyed some Spuffy. I met a2zmom, southernbangel, maren and chrisleeoctaves and started reading a lot of B/A. I've 'shipped pretty much everyone you can 'ship (except Buffy/Willow -- unless it's Core Four orgy, yeah I'm a weirdo -- and I don't do naked Andrew) and right now I'm in a Giles obsession, so I've been reading a lot of Giles/Xander (my favorite Giles pairing) as well as Giles/Buffy and Giles/Ethan and gen fic.
I went through an AtS reading phase because of the great S/A and Wesley writers I knew.
I've been all over the map as far as my fic reading goes (if it's well written and Andrew has his clothes on, I will read it.) There are ships that I love -- Xander/Cordy and Angel(not Angelus)/Darla, Wesley/Lilah -- that I love and can't find much fic on. There are ships I don't understand (Ethan/Dawn) and I'm not a big fan of gen fic that isn't character study or humor.
I'm basically a big 'shipper, and always will be, because the show was so 'shippy and I think their interpersonal relationships informed so much of what they did as characters. I'm pretty slashy (both M/M and F/F) although I will cry buckets over a well done B/A fic or sigh lustily over a hot Spuffy fic.
I am, in short, an emotional whore when it comes to Buffyverse fic.
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Altruism
(Anonymous) 2010-02-04 12:24 am (UTC)(link)Something that's always interested me, and particularly since I'm just rewatching the first three seasons of Buffy, is why the members of the scooby gang keep doing what they do. Why do they keep on throwing themselves in the way of monsters/big bad/ghoul of the week.
And just recently I realised something that I hadn't the first time around: Cordelia is possibly the only person, in the early seasons, that fights the evil things purely because it's the right thing to do.
She isn't a slayer, or best friends with a slayer, or fancies the slayer, or a watcher, or a werewolf. Cordelia doesn't even like anyone in the scoobies at first, yet she pitches in whenever it's required of her. Sure, she bitches about it, and makes with the snark. But at the end of the day, she's the only one that doesn't have a reason to be there, other than that she feels she should help.
I think Cordelia is possibly the most altruistic member of the Scooby gang. Colour me stunned.
Ben.
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But you're right, Cordy's the only one there simply because vampires (or demons or succubi) are bad and having fewer of them would make the world a better place. And it really foreshadows her later realizations on AtS.
Here via Petzipellepingo
Question: do you read season 8 comics? If yes, what's your opinion on them?
And - mind if I friend you? Last year, thanks to comics, I rediscovered my interest at all.things.Xander and I'm glad to find another Xander fan online.
Re: Here via Petzipellepingo
But I've caught up on fandom speculation about the Twilight storyline, so now I'm eager to catch up and plan to start buying them again. And yes, please feel free to friend me -- I really enjoyed the recs you did for Buffyverse Top 5. I'm no sure how much writing I'll do in the Buffyverse, but I do enjoying reading and talking about it.
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